What do you think is causing my ' firm-flaccid '

Sexual Reboot Forum What do you think is causing my ' firm-flaccid '

This topic contains 71 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  Alton 4 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #7514

    Kieth

    It’s all a big blur really, but it was definitely during the time i started masturbating when shit was going messed up ( around 14, and i noticed something was wrong about 15-16 when i was tired lots of the time, poor eyesite, precum, weak erections and lack of motivation.

    I am now 18 and all of those problems have gone, except for the ones in my dick . The only thing i’ve found which really helps is abstaining and most significantly, cialis.

    Otherwise, i rarely get erections – let alone raging rock hard ones. I can’t maintain them without constant stimulation, and morning erections were becoming non existant and hard-flaccid.

    I stopped wanking & more importantly, wanking to porn – 7 weeks ago. And i’m noticing general less hard-flaccidness although sometimes it’s just as bad as before.

    What i just dont get is, the ‘hard-flaccid’ disappears when i go an urinate, then returns afterwards. This surely must indicate tension within the pelvic region, because the PC muscle has to relax to allow for urine to pass right ?

    I can also get rid of it if i sit down, relax, and focus on relaxing everything down there. But the moment i think about it or make sudden movements – it gets tensed again.

    Even if im just lying down, relaxing it, it can become completely normal like it was before this ‘injury’ then within a matter of seconds it can just ‘contract’ and become tensed, without me even doing anything… And i THINK this is what’s causing my poor erections, as the smooth muscles are unable to relax and hold the blood, thus they contract and push the blood back out.

    I’ve never done MDMA or any ‘drug’s other than Weed, and this was way after I started getting messed up erections.

    There is another way that you can stop porn addiction, chronic masturbation and recover your sexual health without fighting it with willpower. With the right mindset you won't even relapse. You can learn more about the recovery program here

    #7515

    Eddy

    Few hours ago at work I’ve read a forum where one mentioned that his hard-flaccid goes away if he yawns at least 9 times in a row.

    But for the love of god I can’t find the link for it.

    Anyway… I have to report that I almost got an spontaneous erection after yawning 7 times in a row (tried it to see how many yawns can I get at will). It’s not that hard to yawn at will actually… you just imagine that feeling of yawning, you open your mouth and try to invoke the feeling a bit more and a yawn comes.

    But the erection that just happened… what the hell… just reading some stuff but about rats and invoked erections by administering drugs which trigger yawning…

    http://www.baillement.com/melis-ragiolas/dopamine-oxytocin-argiolas.html

    #7516

    Von

    Is that some kind of joke ? Lol i will read that link now.

    edit: wow too much for me to comprehend & relate to my problems, feel free to help me out.

    #7517

    Luke

    It’s not a joke but a rather humorous approach I’m still laughing about the erection…

    #7518

    Jerrold

    Ok, but sorry dude, the problems im having aren’t really humorous

    #7519

    Aldo

    kingofsat

    Ok, but sorry dude, the problems im having aren’t really humorous

    Just ignore him.

    Anyways, your case is exactly the same as mine. Nobody knows why we have the firm flaccid, so I can’t give you an answer. We’ve generally agreed that it’s related to the pelvic floor muscles being constantly tense, what we haven’t agreed on is why.

    It’s one of three things; Hormones, Psychological, or Neurological.

    Hormones is treatable if we find that there is in fact something wrong with the hormones.

    Psychological is fucked, go to a psychiatrist? Cognitive behaviour therapy?

    Neurological is also fucked. If something is constantly making our muscles clench, and it’s our brain, it’s most likely beyond a neurologist to be able to fix this. Neurology is the slowest developing medical science. We know a lot about the human body in most areas except the brain.

    #7520

    Larry

    Ok technical, do you have poor erections too ?

    #7521

    Scott

    kingofsat

    Sometimes.

    My sexual performance is very inconsistent. Sometimes I have alot of problems, sometimes none. Most of the time now though my penis head is much more sensitive than it used to be.

    #7522

    Sheldon

    Sometimes.

    My sexual performance is very inconsistent. Sometimes I have alot of problems, sometimes none. Most of the time now though my penis head is much more sensitive than it used to be.

    And from what you’ve learned, what are the best things to do for those with ‘hard-flaccid’ and poor erections. abstinence ? heat ?

    #7523

    Noe

    Ok, but sorry dude, the problems im having aren’t really humorous

    Just ignore him.

    Anyways, your case is exactly the same as mine. Nobody knows why we have the firm flaccid, so I can’t give you an answer. We’ve generally agreed that it’s related to the pelvic floor muscles being constantly tense, what we haven’t agreed on is why.

    It’s one of three things; Hormones, Psychological, or Neurological.

    What about the more obvious: Its a muscular problem.

    I am convinced now that our problems are chronic tense pelvic and related muscles, like the anal sphincter , etc.

    Chronic tense, oxygen-deprived muscles will at some point also effect the organs and nerves inside of the pelvic floor.

    I think the underlying cause is probably a mix of anxiety disorder and unhealthy lifestyle (too much sitting in front of the computer, unhealthy/unnatural abuse of the sexual organs (and the muscles connected to them), too much stress; a general tendency to hold and tighten the anus.) and over many years it results in sore, knot-up, inflammed, triggerpoint ridden tissue which leads to dysfunction, pain and numbness.

    Yeah, maybe there are also some people who have hormonal problems and stuff, but I think the purely muscular approach is much more commonsensical and I think for the biggest part of this community the answer is not in never ending testing and supplementing, but in becoming aware of the holding patterns and relaxing and massaging oneself to health.

    So what I am doing to heal myself is this:

    1. Daily massage (internally throught the anus and externally) of the pelvis muscles, anal sphincter , buttocks, tights.

    2. Daily stretching regime, with yoga postures who stretch the pelvic floor, like pigeon pose or squatting positions.

    3. A daily relaxation regime like Meditiation, Feldenkrais or Progressive Muscle Relaxation.

    Probably it will take month or many years, to reverse the condition and get a healthy, functional pelvic floor, but yeah, it also took many years of abuse to get the muscles in this unconscious, clenched und tightend condition.

    A good book that I can recommend and that got me on the track of seeing it as a muscular disorder is “A Headache in the Pelvis” written by David Wise Ph.D. and Rodney Anderson, MD.

    Here is an exerpt: http://www.pelvicpainhelp.com/excerpts.php

    Quote:

    #7524

    Arturo

    Well said Alpha.

    Happy to see another one realize The Truth.

    There is simply no other way, you need to work out those tensions to heal.

    Though we need to remember that tension in one place will create tension in other places too (it’s all unconscious in the beginning), since the whole body is interconnected. The whole body is affected, and the whole circulation system (which basically EVERYTHING when it comes to health) is diminshed to barely keep us alive. To sort the whole cobweb of tension is a long process indeed.

    But you are bound to succeed with a protocol like that.

    #7525

    Austin

    Good post, and yeah it gives me hope that i’m not permanently damaged when I relax and my dick goes back to being completely relaxed and normal.

    Im going to try castor oil massages when it arrives, and massage it all around the unit & pelvic region.

    Whichever muscle relaxes when we urinate, must be the one that is (over) contracting, surely ? Because it goes away when i urinate, and returns again after.

    #7526

    Kasey

    kingofsat

    Yup.

    But contracting that muscle will contract other muscles too down there unless you’re a sexual tantra master and have isolated them all.

    You can increase sexual power with the simple method of urinating with a little force (without contracting the pelvic floor muscles of course). It’s like a reverse kegel.

    Strong urine flow, strong sexuality, Mantak Chia says.

    #7527

    Floyd

    Alpha

    Ok, but sorry dude, the problems im having aren’t really humorous

    Just ignore him.

    Anyways, your case is exactly the same as mine. Nobody knows why we have the firm flaccid, so I can’t give you an answer. We’ve generally agreed that it’s related to the pelvic floor muscles being constantly tense, what we haven’t agreed on is why.

    It’s one of three things; Hormones, Psychological, or Neurological.

    What about the more obvious: Its a muscular problem.

    I am convinced now that our problems are chronic tense pelvic and related muscles, like the anal sphincter , etc.

    Chronic tense, oxygen-deprived muscles will at some point also effect the organs and nerves inside of the pelvic floor.

    I think the underlying cause is probably a mix of anxiety disorder and unhealthy lifestyle (too much sitting in front of the computer, unhealthy/unnatural abuse of the sexual organs (and the muscles connected to them), too much stress; a general tendency to hold and tighten the anus.) and over many years it results in sore, knot-up, inflammed, triggerpoint ridden tissue which leads to dysfunction, pain and numbness.

    Yeah, maybe there are also some people who have hormonal problems and stuff, but I think the purely muscular approach is much more commonsensical and I think for the biggest part of this community the answer is not in never ending testing and supplementing, but in becoming aware of the holding patterns and relaxing and massaging oneself to health.

    So what I am doing to heal myself is this:

    1. Daily massage (internally throught the anus and externally) of the pelvis muscles, anal sphincter , buttocks, tights.

    2. Daily stretching regime, with yoga postures who stretch the pelvic floor, like pigeon pose or squatting positions.

    3. A daily relaxation regime like Meditiation, Feldenkrais or Progressive Muscle Relaxation.

    Probably it will take month or many years, to reverse the condition and get a healthy, functional pelvic floor, but yeah, it also took many years of abuse to get the muscles in this unconscious, clenched und tightend condition.

    A good book that I can recommend and that got me on the track of seeing it as a muscular disorder is “A Headache in the Pelvis” written by David Wise Ph.D. and Rodney Anderson, MD.

    Here is an exerpt: http://www.pelvicpainhelp.com/excerpts.php

    Quote:

    I just said it was a muscular problem.

    “A Headache in the pelvis” Is a bunch of crooks trying to make money, I’ll post a quote of me posting earlier about that book. DO NOT BUY THAT BOOK. You will just be supporting thieves.

    You can try all of that, good luck.

    #7529

    Zane

    you can’t prove it IS muscle tension or ISN’T muscle tension until you’ve done testing and have results to back you up.

    We’re going in circles again. It’s all speculation right now. Only one person needs tested, or a few of you.. and results will determine if it is muscle tension or a hormonal problem.

    #7530

    Warren

    theres no point argueing anymore……if people dont wanna listen then their choice….either way the only real thing that matters is what you end up doing

    #7531

    Fritz

    I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the Stanford Protocol based on some selected reviews of yours. The majority of review is positive.

    Actually there are much more “success stories” on this forum http://www.chronicprostatitis.com/forum/index.php of people following the Protocol, doing the massage and progressive relaxation often in combination with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy than on this forum. Most of the successful guys say it took them month of disciplined work, but eventually they got back to 90-99% of a normal state. Most people are here are just doing expensive testings and pooping pills forever without really returning to normal.

    And dude I am I little longer on this forum than you, you dont have to rebuke me and tell me that I should read the forum more careful. I read it regular and I tell you something, this forum is a community of like minded guys who help each other and try to exchange ideas and their frustrations.

    You should watch your tone man or F*ck off with your negativity.

    #7532

    Thurman

    Alpha

    You probably didn’t even bother reading what I posted or else you would realize the “doctors” behind that book aren’t doctors at all, and those that claim they have been helped come back to real life and admit that it was placebo and are back in the same position they were a year before they started.

    Also stop calling it the “Stanford Protocol” Stanford doesn’t even support it, they used the word Stanford to steal more money from people.

    Negativity? Why? Because I said something you didn’t want to hear? I guess the truth hurts.

    They’re selling products here, success stories are no different than the ones you see on TV for lawyer firms, or people who plug fitness crap. Don’t believe everything you read, especially on the internet.

    Why would someone go out of their way to post a review to unearth the fraud that is the “Standford” protocol? Probably because they tried it, found out what was really going on behind the scenes, and wanted people to save their money and time.

    And if you’re going to call me out for having a “tone” maybe you shouldn’t open up with the statement;

    “What about the more obvious: Its a muscular problem.”

    Not only does that convey tone but it demonstrates you never read my posts in the first place, as they SUGGESTED A MUSCULAR PROBLEM.

    #7533

    Jonah

    Alpha a lot of people here have different issues/conditions. “SE” could be divided into at least 5 categories that we’ve established already. I’m sure there ARE some with pelvic floor tension, others with non. Some with hard flaccid others with just mood swings.. A lot of symptoms overlap though so we think its all similar but it’s not neccesarily. The treatment for each individual could look different. So for that reason we need to get testing. I;m not talking about popping pills. Just tests to see what your individual imbalances are, see how they match up to people with similar symptoms, and then work on fixing those imbalances.

    If all your hormones come in range except like prolactin or something then I’ll agree 100% that it is muscle related not hormone related. But you don’t know until you see those results. You might think you got muscle tension when in fact you got adrenal fatigue along with low neurotrasmitters.. which could all easily be detected by the test. Then you fix that, and muscle tension disappears.

    And take me for example.. also pelvic tension.. and it went away by taking TYLENOL… who the F*ck would have thought… I mean how random.. A TYLENOL makes my pelvic tension disappear and gets rid of PE.

    just goes to show that pills do work..

    #7534

    Gregg

    Very true….I dont understand how geting proper testing can be looked down upon in anyway. By doing proper testing Iv basically figured out everything wrong with me.

    I know for a fact that I dont have any pelvic tension or whatever. I never have as a matter of fact. I do however know for a fact that my hormones and neurotransmitters are fucked up. So if i had listened to do pelvic floor exercises blah blah i would have gotten nowere.

    we all have different shit wrong with us. Sometimes it correlates and sometimes it dosnt.

    #7535

    Leo

    LOL the forum requires you to pay?

    How helpful.

    #7536

    Ricardo

    also for people who have been on here for years and years…..i would say thats a badge of shame rather then a badge of pride. I think listening to your advice will for the most part lead me the same situation your in….which is no progress.

    #7537

    Kristopher

    You probably didn’t even bother reading what I posted or else you would realize the “doctors” behind that book aren’t doctors at all, and those that claim they have been helped come back to real life and admit that it was placebo and are back in the same position they were a year before they started.

    Also stop calling it the “Stanford Protocol” Stanford doesn’t even support it, they used the word Stanford to steal more money from people.

    Negativity? Why? Because I said something you didn’t want to hear? I guess the truth hurts.

    Ok I give you that, I shouldn’t refer to it as Stanford Protocol anymore, but Wise-Anderson Protocol. When the WAP started, Anderson was part of the Urology department and and Wise worked at Stanford seeing patients referred from the Urology department. That’s where the Protocol was developed and that’s how got its “Stanford” name. Now that Wise not longer works there, they prefer the name Wise-Anderson Protocol.

    Anderson MD has Professor Emeritus status at Stanford and is still active in urology, publishing his most recent paper in 2009. He also still has an office at Stanford as well.

    —> http://med.stanford.edu/profiles/urology/frdActionServlet?choiceId=facProfile&fid=4542

    David Wise is a Clinical Psychologist, so of course he has no medical degree. He has a PhD in Sociology as well as board certification in Clinical Psychology. A person with a medical degree would probably not have been able to think outside the box enough to formulate the W-A protocol. So his lack of a medical degree is a plus.

    Regarding “Stealing Money” from people, nobody forces you to visit their clinic or buy the book. Actually their is a chapter called “Internal Self-Massage”, of course its easier to work with a skilled Physical Therapist who can help you to find trigger points in your pelvis floor, but you can teach it yourself.

    They also just released a book on Paradoxical Massage, so if you can’t afford it to visit the clinic you can just start the protocol by yourself, I don’t see how that is “stealing peoples money”.

    The only accusation from your not very convincing “debunking” of the book is the recommendation of Bryon Katie in the book, which is esoteric pseudo-psychology and I think its improper recommendation.

    #7538

    Rodney

    Alpha

    You probably didn’t even bother reading what I posted or else you would realize the “doctors” behind that book aren’t doctors at all, and those that claim they have been helped come back to real life and admit that it was placebo and are back in the same position they were a year before they started.

    Also stop calling it the “Stanford Protocol” Stanford doesn’t even support it, they used the word Stanford to steal more money from people.

    Negativity? Why? Because I said something you didn’t want to hear? I guess the truth hurts.

    Ok I give you that, I shouldn’t refer to it as Stanford Protocol anymore, but Wise-Anderson Protocol. When the WAP started, Anderson was part of the Urology department and and Wise worked at Stanford seeing patients referred from the Urology department. That’s where the Protocol was developed and that’s how got its “Stanford” name. Now that Wise not longer works there, they prefer the name Wise-Anderson Protocol.

    Anderson MD has Professor Emeritus status at Stanford and is still active in urology, publishing his most recent paper in 2009. He also still has an office at Stanford as well.

    —> http://med.stanford.edu/profiles/urology/frdActionServlet?choiceId=facProfile&fid=4542

    David Wise is a Clinical Psychologist, so of course he has no medical degree. He has a PhD in Sociology as well as board certification in Clinical Psychology. A person with a medical degree would probably not have been able to think outside the box enough to formulate the W-A protocol. So his lack of a medical degree is a plus.

    Regarding “Stealing Money” from people, nobody forces you to visit their clinic or buy the book. Actually their is a chapter called “Internal Self-Massage”, of course its easier to work with a skilled Physical Therapist who can help you to find trigger points in your pelvis floor, but you can teach it yourself.

    They also just released a book on Paradoxical Massage, so if you can’t afford it to visit the clinic you can just start the protocol by yourself, I don’t see how that is “stealing peoples money”.

    The only accusation from your not very convincing “debunking” of the book is the recommendation of Bryon Katie in the book, which is esoteric pseudo-psychology and I think its improper recommendation.

    His PhD is Sociology

    Sociology =/= psychologist. I don’t care if he has a board certificate.

    Once again they’re plugging products. THEIR BOOKS. Why else did they call it the STANFORD protocol? They know the reputation attached to the name, so they knew they could sell more books.

    I’ve already posted three reviews that states they know nobody PERSONALLY that have tried it, that it actually helped.

    Even the forum you went to requires 20 bucks just to register, and they’re selling stuff on that site.

    How many people do you know that it cured? Of them, how many do you know PERSONALLY?

    #7539

    Harley

    Dude sure, I would never say that massage and relaxation is the cure all fix all. I am sure there are people with real hormonal problems who need to fix that.

    I did some testing in the past, but I never found anything spectacular, testosterone is a little low, but still in the middle field. My doctor didn’t saw any reason to make more expensive, more detailed tests. Maybe I should do more comprehensive tests, but here in germany I could only do it in a special clinic, which I have to pay myself for and the really comprehensive tests are very expensive.

    So yeah, I agree with you, as long as you have ruled out any serious hormonal disorders you should may be try to relax and see if maybe relaxing the muscles with massage, heating, relaxation, stretching, yoga and stuff like that will make it better.

    But its pretty easy, if you put some vaseline on your finger and insert it in the anus and carefully palpate the surrounding tissue and notice that its all burning and painful to touch, maybe you even find some little knots, which if palpated recreate your pain/symptoms, you can be pretty sure that its a harmless but stubborn case of chronic pelvic muscle tension with the eventual build up of trigger points in the muscles.

    We shouldn’t totally dismiss either approach, I am sure some people are unlucky and suffer from some real hormonal disorders and need hormone therapy, but for others it is chronic spasm of, shortening of and trigger point formation in the pelvic floor muscles.

    So yeah, I see at least two possible kinds of SE. I just think it extremely ignorant of to categorically dismiss the Pelvic Myoneuropathy as bullox based on false accusations he found in some amazon reviews. I have good experiences with it so far and it may help others.

    #7540

    Ted

    Alpha

    Dude sure, I would never say that massage and relaxation is the cure all fix all. I am sure there are people with real hormonal problems who need to fix that.

    I did some testing in the past, but I never found anything spectacular, testosterone is a little low, but still in the middle field. My doctor didn’t saw any reason to make more expensive, more detailed tests. Maybe I should do more comprehensive tests, but here in germany I could only do it in a special clinic, which I have to pay myself for and the really comprehensive tests are very expensive.

    So yeah, I agree with you, as long as you have ruled out any serious hormonal disorders you should may be try to relax and see if maybe relaxing the muscles with massage, heating, relaxation, stretching, yoga and stuff like that will make it better.

    But its pretty easy, if you put some vaseline on your finger and insert it in the anus and carefully palpate the surrounding tissue and notice that its all burning and painful to touch, maybe you even find some little knots, which if palpated recreate your pain/symptoms, you can be pretty sure that its a harmless but stubborn case of chronic pelvic muscle tension with the eventual build up of trigger points in the muscles.

    We shouldn’t totally dismiss either approach, I am sure some people are unlucky and suffer from some real hormonal disorders and need hormone therapy, but for others it is chronic spasm of, shortening of and trigger point formation in the pelvic floor muscles.

    So yeah, I see at least two possible kinds of SE. I just think it extremely ignorant of to categorically dismiss the Pelvic Myoneuropathy as bullox based on false accusations he found in some amazon reviews. I have good experiences with it so far and it may help others.

    False accusations? What of those reviews were false? Point it out.

    I also didn’t dismiss the approach. I dismissed those who were trying to sell it. The approach isn’t new, it’s been around MUCH longer than that book those two assholes released.

    I’ve already stated in a thread before that if I did not have a noticeable hormone imbalance I would turn to cognitive therapy and forms of treatment for pelvic floor dysfunction. Like biofeed back and messaging.

    #7541

    Andreas

    I see where you come from, but again, respect is a good thing dude. Your arrogance won’t bring you far. This kind of disorder is unfortunately only resolved quickly in the rare cases. Most people struggle years until they finally find or don’t find a solution to their particular problem. Maybe you are lucky, maybe not and you will be still on the forum in 3 years.

    So you could maybe benefit from the experience of people who tried out a lot of things already. Its retarded to think that anybody would wanne advise you to do things that didn’t work for him. Actually I am making good progress, I just don’t have the time to post here every day.

    #7542

    Paris

    werd man didnt mean disrespect directly to you.

    just meant more in general most the people who have been on this forum for years and years have made basically no progress. Alot of them still advocate ridicolous abstaining and vitamins, herbs and mambo jambo.

    im glad your doing better . Everybodies different and in the end its all gona be an indivdual battle. All we can do is help each other out.

    #7543

    Garry

    Dude sure, I would never say that massage and relaxation is the cure all fix all. I am sure there are people with real hormonal problems who need to fix that.

    I did some testing in the past, but I never found anything spectacular, testosterone is a little low, but still in the middle field. My doctor didn’t saw any reason to make more expensive, more detailed tests. Maybe I should do more comprehensive tests, but here in germany I could only do it in a special clinic, which I have to pay myself for and the really comprehensive tests are very expensive.

    So yeah, I agree with you, as long as you have ruled out any serious hormonal disorders you should may be try to relax and see if maybe relaxing the muscles with massage, heating, relaxation, stretching, yoga and stuff like that will make it better.

    But its pretty easy, if you put some vaseline on your finger and insert it in the anus and carefully palpate the surrounding tissue and notice that its all burning and painful to touch, maybe you even find some little knots, which if palpated recreate your pain/symptoms, you can be pretty sure that its a harmless but stubborn case of chronic pelvic muscle tension with the eventual build up of trigger points in the muscles.

    We shouldn’t totally dismiss either approach, I am sure some people are unlucky and suffer from some real hormonal disorders and need hormone therapy, but for others it is chronic spasm of, shortening of and trigger point formation in the pelvic floor muscles.

    So yeah, I see at least two possible kinds of SE. I just think it extremely ignorant of to categorically dismiss the Pelvic Myoneuropathy as bullox based on false accusations he found in some amazon reviews. I have good experiences with it so far and it may help others.

    False accusations? What of those reviews were false? Point it out.

    I also didn’t dismiss the approach. I dismissed those who were trying to sell it. The approach isn’t new, it’s been around MUCH longer than that book those two assholes released.

    I’ve already stated in a thread before that if I did not have a noticeable hormone imbalance I would turn to cognitive therapy and forms of treatment for pelvic floor dysfunction. Like biofeed back and messaging.

    Dude you don’t know what you are talking about. So its not a new approach? Than show me please, were before did you find the combination of internal/external treatment for triggerpoints and paradoxical relaxation with all the RESEARCH that underpines the theory behind the protocol? Its the combination that works.

    I mean sure, you can also try cognitive therapy or massage alone, but most people dont have success with the single elements of the protocol. And just doing regular massage with your PT will do shit for a knot-up pelvic floor, you need to work with a PT trained in internal pelvic floor therapy.

    I already pointed out, that Anderson is a Urologist with an office at Stanford, so Quote: is a false accusation.

    Dr. Wise never said he was a Doctor, neither in/on the book nor elsewhere.

    You also say that allegedly patients said improvement was just a placebo.

    It is impossible to have a placebo for intrarectal massage, so a placebo-controlled study is not readily achievable. Does it mean they are therefore not reliable? No. It simply means they were not placebo controlled, which means they are less reliable than a placebo-controlled study. In an ideal world, we’d have a placebo-controlled study, but since that is well-nigh impossible, there is no point in carping about the results we do have. And BTW the results were published in the best peer-reviewed journals in urology, so we can rest assured they are dependable studies.

    Did you even read the book or do any of your own research or are you just quoting reviews from a bookshop?

    #7544

    Abraham

    No hard feelings. Yeah sure I also don’t think that prolonged abstinence, pseudoscience and new age therapies will do anything for us.

    But we still have to keep an open mind and not get fixated on one kind of treatment, because like you said everyone of us is probably dealing with a slightly different disorder, even so some of the symptoms we suffer from may overlap.

    The important thing is that we keep exchanging our ideas, our expieriences, sucesses and failures in a respectful way. If you are not convinced by a particular approach you can just ignore it, nobody will can force you to try out anything. Its up to you to discuss and tryout the approach you deem fitting.

    But in the past we discussed everything here from hormonal therapies to the a little far out Daoist practices, but hey, I like it, it helps you to stay open minded and try out something new if you are in a dead-end.

    #7545

    Kenton

    Alpha

    Dude sure, I would never say that massage and relaxation is the cure all fix all. I am sure there are people with real hormonal problems who need to fix that.

    I did some testing in the past, but I never found anything spectacular, testosterone is a little low, but still in the middle field. My doctor didn’t saw any reason to make more expensive, more detailed tests. Maybe I should do more comprehensive tests, but here in germany I could only do it in a special clinic, which I have to pay myself for and the really comprehensive tests are very expensive.

    So yeah, I agree with you, as long as you have ruled out any serious hormonal disorders you should may be try to relax and see if maybe relaxing the muscles with massage, heating, relaxation, stretching, yoga and stuff like that will make it better.

    But its pretty easy, if you put some vaseline on your finger and insert it in the anus and carefully palpate the surrounding tissue and notice that its all burning and painful to touch, maybe you even find some little knots, which if palpated recreate your pain/symptoms, you can be pretty sure that its a harmless but stubborn case of chronic pelvic muscle tension with the eventual build up of trigger points in the muscles.

    We shouldn’t totally dismiss either approach, I am sure some people are unlucky and suffer from some real hormonal disorders and need hormone therapy, but for others it is chronic spasm of, shortening of and trigger point formation in the pelvic floor muscles.

    So yeah, I see at least two possible kinds of SE. I just think it extremely ignorant of to categorically dismiss the Pelvic Myoneuropathy as bullox based on false accusations he found in some amazon reviews. I have good experiences with it so far and it may help others.

    False accusations? What of those reviews were false? Point it out.

    I also didn’t dismiss the approach. I dismissed those who were trying to sell it. The approach isn’t new, it’s been around MUCH longer than that book those two assholes released.

    I’ve already stated in a thread before that if I did not have a noticeable hormone imbalance I would turn to cognitive therapy and forms of treatment for pelvic floor dysfunction. Like biofeed back and messaging.

    Dude you don’t know what you are talking about. So its not a new approach? Than show me please, were before did you find the combination of internal/external treatment for triggerpoints and paradoxical relaxation with all the RESEARCH that underpines the theory behind the protocol? Its the combination that works.

    I mean sure, you can also try cognitive therapy or massage alone, but most people dont have success with the single elements of the protocol. And just doing regular massage with your PT will do shit for a knot-up pelvic floor, you need to work with a PT trained in internal pelvic floor therapy.

    I already pointed out, that Anderson is a Urologist with an office at Stanford, so Quote: is a false accusation.

    Dr. Wise never said he was a Doctor, neither in/on the book nor elsewhere.

    You also say that allegedly patients said improvement was just a placebo.

    It is impossible to have a placebo for intrarectal massage, so a placebo-controlled study is not readily achievable. Does it mean they are therefore not reliable? No. It simply means they were not placebo controlled, which means they are less reliable than a placebo-controlled study. In an ideal world, we’d have a placebo-controlled study, but since that is well-nigh impossible, there is no point in carping about the results we do have. And BTW the results were published in the best peer-reviewed journals in urology, so we can rest assured they are dependable studies.

    Did you even read the book or do any of your own research or are you just quoting reviews from a bookshop?

    Dr. Wise calls himself a doctor to deliberately mislead people.

    You still have yet to list anyone you know personally who cured themselves with this protocol.

    Research? What research? They haven’t done research, it’s all backed by NOTHING. Also that accusation was of my own not the reviews, and it was obviously directed at the numerous citations of the book. Not to mention that the “urologist” stopped working with stanford YEARS ago.

    I also don’t think you understand the placebo effect. If people try a “new” treatment with dozens of people who have “success stories” they trick themselves into thinking they are improving. Really it’s their expectations to improve that has clouded their judgement. Eventually the placebo effect subsides and they realize they are in the same place they were a year ago. Basic psychology.

    You don’t know what you’re talking about.

    Not to mention “trigger points” Aren’t even recognized by the medical community. It’s been proven that chiropractic treatments and various other treatments like acupuncture have largely TEMPORARY effects as well as placebo effects. None of it is backed by any real science. How could it be? The people who practice “trigger point therapy” got their “certificates” in some “school” located in a strip mall.

    Alpha

    That’s exactly what you are following, a new age therapy that is also a pseudoscience.

    #7546

    Cyrus

    Look I’m done here, I don’t need to debate you. Go ahead and do your protocol, if it works come back here and tell me how wrong I am in a year from now, and tell people how to do it. Until then, stop directing people to buy books and pay money to register to forums none of which have been proven to work by any reputable clinical studies.

    You’re one of those guys who are so desperate they would fall for a snake oil salesman if they told you it would cure your SE. I’m not.

    Peace, good luck.

    #7547

    Lane
    #7548

    August

    When my problems started I noticed that throughout the day my anus was contracted tight all the time. In the end when I got rid of my problems my anus was relatively relaxed all the time. If it was completely relaxed it would open and suck air in (that happens when you’re on your knees belly down and relax your ass.. if you’re good at it the anus will open and suck air in.. in yoga it’s called sthala basti.. it’s a very interesting technique and it helps you learn about the tension in your pelvic area).

    Anyway saying that there’s no cure is harsh. I’ve gotten rid of SE some time ago just by basically learning how to untense during sexual things (not throughout the day I have to say.. that was basically useless because anytime I would have a tense orgasm everything would just fall apart again) . And everything came back to normal – even hormonal balances.

    But yeah people should look carefully if someone asks money for their programs. It’s a bit unfair in my opinion to ask for money because many causes are financially exhausted by putting their money into useless testing and medications.

    #7549

    Frances

    Listen Tec…you need to show respect to others

    Alpha haven’t forced u or anyone to buy this book or whatever, in case you believe that their approach wasn’t backed up by a scientific proof then you need to show clear evidence

    nagging around wont make your statement a FACT

    we are not in a research institution to show people evidence in each information presented , its about discussing protocols to our cases and situation

    your ignorance in debate skills cant be implemented in here because simply you disagree with any idea you don’t like

    if somebody mentions abstaining or breathing or any alternative route …you interfere and start to show your cocky skills in debating and asking for proofs

    tell me …did you asked Frenchi to show proofs when he started to follow Chris protocol in taking paracetamol ???? I bet there is no single proof for that?? or show me the evidence like i did that day

    do you have evidence that jelqing may weaken your erections when you stated this 2 days ago??? or as usual you are trying to divert people with your unsupported statements as usual

    your ignorance and arrogance in your debate is clear… so just try to learn for others rather than spending your time in debating and denying any information that is presented in here

    Show some respect and share your opinion without the self ego thing….you are still new in here and when the symptoms develops you will try anything to get out of this maze…

    And by the way..science has proofed that snake oil has some positive effects to your joints, hair , blood etc

    Check out these links to enhance your knowledge

    (they are performed in institutions like what you always ask)

    http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=13925507

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1026931/?page=1

    (Read the snake oil part from this page)

    since your not a doctor neither a good researcher who are you to say otherwise about the snake oil??

    Good Luck

    #7550

    Buddy

    Of course you don’t have to debate me. But you wanted to obviously… now as I clearly refute all your allegations you just want to back out?

    I gave you links to recent medical studies. Why is the American Urological Association not reputable?

    Why do you allege Dr. Anderson is not a Urologist?

    Quote:

    Dude, 1. I recommend you a book. You can buy it, you can borrow it from the libary, you can read it online OR you just ignore my recommendation. What is so fucking difficult about that?

    2. I directed people to read the Success stories, which are all accessible FOR UNREGISTERED users. No money involved.

    Seriously man, stop talking out of your ass.

    Actually reading through your post history you are a classic case for CPPS: constantly clenched pelvis muscles, hard flaccid, urinary problems, pain in penis, constipation.

    You have chronic muscle tension in your pelvic. You can take pills, do biofeedback, you can do whatever. But only the combination of relaxation and daily massage of the muscles will heal you. Thats the bottomline dude. Take it or leave it.

    #7551

    Henry

    Well thanks for ruining the thread by arguing Im just trying to diagnose my problems in this forum because alot of people here seem knowledgable.

    I have no urinary problem, burning or uncomfort – so that must rule out prostatitis ?

    My worst problem is E.D, i can live with having a ‘hard-flaccid’ dick – because when your dick is flaccid you only ever use it to piss with. I can’t however live with no erections, and erections that require constant stimulation physically and visually – this is just a recipe for disaster when it comes to normal sex.

    What i just don’t get is, i’ve stopped wanking for 7 weeks so far and the firm flaccid still seems about the same – but during the first 1-3 weeks i would get some random erections and very rarely, a random erection which was very very hard – because i was experiencing this in the early stages of abstinence, i thought i was making a ‘linear recovery’. However i’ve been getting less morning wood and random erections in recent weeks.

    I just don’t understand how one night, i smoked a tiny bit of weed – then before i went to bed i literally had the best erection of my life, it required absolutely no stimulation whatsoever. It seems as though this is the first and last time i’m going to experience this though – i didnt even do anything different on that day i don’t think, it was just a normal day/night and i hadn’t taken any supplements.

    I’m pretty damn sure it’s non hormonal, because alot of people who had hormonal causes got it from taking MDMA. Also i read on medhelp someone who fixed all of this by taking a magnesium powder, and magnesium oil. ( go to the bottom of this page… http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Mens-Health/Continuation-of-Penis-hard-when-flaccid-thread/show/1122440 )

    It’s like my dick has a routine for being normal/fucked up

    Full bladder/When im having a piss = relaxed… After i finish = tense.

    First thing in the morning = tense

    Mid morning and when i come home from colleg, about 11 oclock = completely relaxed

    About 15 minutes after the gym, till i get out the shower = completely relaxed

    Evening – about 5 mins after the shower i have after the gym, tense.

    Night time before bed, around 11 – its the worst, especially if im wearing no trousers :S

    However if i focus on relaxing everything it gets better, and generally it gets worse throughout the day and is the worst at night.

    Also, getting in the bath makes it really bad, especially when i get out.

    and as a sidenote; i noticed i have vertical black lines and ridges on most of my nails and thick white parts on my toenails, do you think this indicates a deficiency ? If so, could it be a magnesium deficiency, as magnesium also is necessary for the smooth muscle to relax.

    Can anyone else relate to this ?

    any advice ?

    #7552

    Rolf

    I don’t believe there is anyone who fixed these problems in a few months… You might hope you will solve this thing in a short time but most likely it will take years. Though that doesn’t mean you cannot enjoy life during healing. Time goes quick anyways. A few years ain’t shit. I believe most people never heal this, so if you heal in any given time it’s a job well done.

    #7553

    Peter

    i didnt say it wouldnt take long. i actually expect it to take a few years to reach a point of satisfaction.

    I just think its said that there are ten year veterans on here.

    #7554

    Mervin

    Very true….I dont understand how geting proper testing can be looked down upon in anyway. By doing proper testing Iv basically figured out everything wrong with me.

    I know for a fact that I dont have any pelvic tension or whatever. I never have as a matter of fact. I do however know for a fact that my hormones and neurotransmitters are fucked up. So if i had listened to do pelvic floor exercises blah blah i would have gotten nowere.

    we all have different shit wrong with us. Sometimes it correlates and sometimes it dosnt.

    #7555

    Calvin

    LOL the forum requires you to pay?

    How helpful.

    #7556

    Leopoldo

    also for people who have been on here for years and years…..i would say thats a badge of shame rather then a badge of pride. I think listening to your advice will for the most part lead me the same situation your in….which is no progress.

    #7557

    Del

    You probably didn’t even bother reading what I posted or else you would realize the “doctors” behind that book aren’t doctors at all, and those that claim they have been helped come back to real life and admit that it was placebo and are back in the same position they were a year before they started.

    Also stop calling it the “Stanford Protocol” Stanford doesn’t even support it, they used the word Stanford to steal more money from people.

    Negativity? Why? Because I said something you didn’t want to hear? I guess the truth hurts.

    Ok I give you that, I shouldn’t refer to it as Stanford Protocol anymore, but Wise-Anderson Protocol. When the WAP started, Anderson was part of the Urology department and and Wise worked at Stanford seeing patients referred from the Urology department. That’s where the Protocol was developed and that’s how got its “Stanford” name. Now that Wise not longer works there, they prefer the name Wise-Anderson Protocol.

    Anderson MD has Professor Emeritus status at Stanford and is still active in urology, publishing his most recent paper in 2009. He also still has an office at Stanford as well.

    —> http://med.stanford.edu/profiles/urology/frdActionServlet?choiceId=facProfile&fid=4542

    David Wise is a Clinical Psychologist, so of course he has no medical degree. He has a PhD in Sociology as well as board certification in Clinical Psychology. A person with a medical degree would probably not have been able to think outside the box enough to formulate the W-A protocol. So his lack of a medical degree is a plus.

    Regarding “Stealing Money” from people, nobody forces you to visit their clinic or buy the book. Actually their is a chapter called “Internal Self-Massage”, of course its easier to work with a skilled Physical Therapist who can help you to find trigger points in your pelvis floor, but you can teach it yourself.

    They also just released a book on Paradoxical Massage, so if you can’t afford it to visit the clinic you can just start the protocol by yourself, I don’t see how that is “stealing peoples money”.

    The only accusation from your not very convincing “debunking” of the book is the recommendation of Bryon Katie in the book, which is esoteric pseudo-psychology and I think its improper recommendation.

    #7558

    Damion

    Alpha

    You probably didn’t even bother reading what I posted or else you would realize the “doctors” behind that book aren’t doctors at all, and those that claim they have been helped come back to real life and admit that it was placebo and are back in the same position they were a year before they started.

    Also stop calling it the “Stanford Protocol” Stanford doesn’t even support it, they used the word Stanford to steal more money from people.

    Negativity? Why? Because I said something you didn’t want to hear? I guess the truth hurts.

    Ok I give you that, I shouldn’t refer to it as Stanford Protocol anymore, but Wise-Anderson Protocol. When the WAP started, Anderson was part of the Urology department and and Wise worked at Stanford seeing patients referred from the Urology department. That’s where the Protocol was developed and that’s how got its “Stanford” name. Now that Wise not longer works there, they prefer the name Wise-Anderson Protocol.

    Anderson MD has Professor Emeritus status at Stanford and is still active in urology, publishing his most recent paper in 2009. He also still has an office at Stanford as well.

    —> http://med.stanford.edu/profiles/urology/frdActionServlet?choiceId=facProfile&fid=4542

    David Wise is a Clinical Psychologist, so of course he has no medical degree. He has a PhD in Sociology as well as board certification in Clinical Psychology. A person with a medical degree would probably not have been able to think outside the box enough to formulate the W-A protocol. So his lack of a medical degree is a plus.

    Regarding “Stealing Money” from people, nobody forces you to visit their clinic or buy the book. Actually their is a chapter called “Internal Self-Massage”, of course its easier to work with a skilled Physical Therapist who can help you to find trigger points in your pelvis floor, but you can teach it yourself.

    They also just released a book on Paradoxical Massage, so if you can’t afford it to visit the clinic you can just start the protocol by yourself, I don’t see how that is “stealing peoples money”.

    The only accusation from your not very convincing “debunking” of the book is the recommendation of Bryon Katie in the book, which is esoteric pseudo-psychology and I think its improper recommendation.

    His PhD is Sociology

    Sociology =/= psychologist. I don’t care if he has a board certificate.

    Once again they’re plugging products. THEIR BOOKS. Why else did they call it the STANFORD protocol? They know the reputation attached to the name, so they knew they could sell more books.

    I’ve already posted three reviews that states they know nobody PERSONALLY that have tried it, that it actually helped.

    Even the forum you went to requires 20 bucks just to register, and they’re selling stuff on that site.

    How many people do you know that it cured? Of them, how many do you know PERSONALLY?

    #7559

    Quentin

    Dude sure, I would never say that massage and relaxation is the cure all fix all. I am sure there are people with real hormonal problems who need to fix that.

    I did some testing in the past, but I never found anything spectacular, testosterone is a little low, but still in the middle field. My doctor didn’t saw any reason to make more expensive, more detailed tests. Maybe I should do more comprehensive tests, but here in germany I could only do it in a special clinic, which I have to pay myself for and the really comprehensive tests are very expensive.

    So yeah, I agree with you, as long as you have ruled out any serious hormonal disorders you should may be try to relax and see if maybe relaxing the muscles with massage, heating, relaxation, stretching, yoga and stuff like that will make it better.

    But its pretty easy, if you put some vaseline on your finger and insert it in the anus and carefully palpate the surrounding tissue and notice that its all burning and painful to touch, maybe you even find some little knots, which if palpated recreate your pain/symptoms, you can be pretty sure that its a harmless but stubborn case of chronic pelvic muscle tension with the eventual build up of trigger points in the muscles.

    We shouldn’t totally dismiss either approach, I am sure some people are unlucky and suffer from some real hormonal disorders and need hormone therapy, but for others it is chronic spasm of, shortening of and trigger point formation in the pelvic floor muscles.

    So yeah, I see at least two possible kinds of SE. I just think it extremely ignorant of to categorically dismiss the Pelvic Myoneuropathy as bullox based on false accusations he found in some amazon reviews. I have good experiences with it so far and it may help others.

    #7560

    Clint

    Alpha

    Dude sure, I would never say that massage and relaxation is the cure all fix all. I am sure there are people with real hormonal problems who need to fix that.

    I did some testing in the past, but I never found anything spectacular, testosterone is a little low, but still in the middle field. My doctor didn’t saw any reason to make more expensive, more detailed tests. Maybe I should do more comprehensive tests, but here in germany I could only do it in a special clinic, which I have to pay myself for and the really comprehensive tests are very expensive.

    So yeah, I agree with you, as long as you have ruled out any serious hormonal disorders you should may be try to relax and see if maybe relaxing the muscles with massage, heating, relaxation, stretching, yoga and stuff like that will make it better.

    But its pretty easy, if you put some vaseline on your finger and insert it in the anus and carefully palpate the surrounding tissue and notice that its all burning and painful to touch, maybe you even find some little knots, which if palpated recreate your pain/symptoms, you can be pretty sure that its a harmless but stubborn case of chronic pelvic muscle tension with the eventual build up of trigger points in the muscles.

    We shouldn’t totally dismiss either approach, I am sure some people are unlucky and suffer from some real hormonal disorders and need hormone therapy, but for others it is chronic spasm of, shortening of and trigger point formation in the pelvic floor muscles.

    So yeah, I see at least two possible kinds of SE. I just think it extremely ignorant of to categorically dismiss the Pelvic Myoneuropathy as bullox based on false accusations he found in some amazon reviews. I have good experiences with it so far and it may help others.

    False accusations? What of those reviews were false? Point it out.

    I also didn’t dismiss the approach. I dismissed those who were trying to sell it. The approach isn’t new, it’s been around MUCH longer than that book those two assholes released.

    I’ve already stated in a thread before that if I did not have a noticeable hormone imbalance I would turn to cognitive therapy and forms of treatment for pelvic floor dysfunction. Like biofeed back and messaging.

    #7561

    Dana

    I see where you come from, but again, respect is a good thing dude. Your arrogance won’t bring you far. This kind of disorder is unfortunately only resolved quickly in the rare cases. Most people struggle years until they finally find or don’t find a solution to their particular problem. Maybe you are lucky, maybe not and you will be still on the forum in 3 years.

    So you could maybe benefit from the experience of people who tried out a lot of things already. Its retarded to think that anybody would wanne advise you to do things that didn’t work for him. Actually I am making good progress, I just don’t have the time to post here every day.

    #7562

    Kendrick

    werd man didnt mean disrespect directly to you.

    just meant more in general most the people who have been on this forum for years and years have made basically no progress. Alot of them still advocate ridicolous abstaining and vitamins, herbs and mambo jambo.

    im glad your doing better . Everybodies different and in the end its all gona be an indivdual battle. All we can do is help each other out.

    #7563

    King

    Dude sure, I would never say that massage and relaxation is the cure all fix all. I am sure there are people with real hormonal problems who need to fix that.

    I did some testing in the past, but I never found anything spectacular, testosterone is a little low, but still in the middle field. My doctor didn’t saw any reason to make more expensive, more detailed tests. Maybe I should do more comprehensive tests, but here in germany I could only do it in a special clinic, which I have to pay myself for and the really comprehensive tests are very expensive.

    So yeah, I agree with you, as long as you have ruled out any serious hormonal disorders you should may be try to relax and see if maybe relaxing the muscles with massage, heating, relaxation, stretching, yoga and stuff like that will make it better.

    But its pretty easy, if you put some vaseline on your finger and insert it in the anus and carefully palpate the surrounding tissue and notice that its all burning and painful to touch, maybe you even find some little knots, which if palpated recreate your pain/symptoms, you can be pretty sure that its a harmless but stubborn case of chronic pelvic muscle tension with the eventual build up of trigger points in the muscles.

    We shouldn’t totally dismiss either approach, I am sure some people are unlucky and suffer from some real hormonal disorders and need hormone therapy, but for others it is chronic spasm of, shortening of and trigger point formation in the pelvic floor muscles.

    So yeah, I see at least two possible kinds of SE. I just think it extremely ignorant of to categorically dismiss the Pelvic Myoneuropathy as bullox based on false accusations he found in some amazon reviews. I have good experiences with it so far and it may help others.

    False accusations? What of those reviews were false? Point it out.

    I also didn’t dismiss the approach. I dismissed those who were trying to sell it. The approach isn’t new, it’s been around MUCH longer than that book those two assholes released.

    I’ve already stated in a thread before that if I did not have a noticeable hormone imbalance I would turn to cognitive therapy and forms of treatment for pelvic floor dysfunction. Like biofeed back and messaging.

    Dude you don’t know what you are talking about. So its not a new approach? Than show me please, were before did you find the combination of internal/external treatment for triggerpoints and paradoxical relaxation with all the RESEARCH that underpines the theory behind the protocol? Its the combination that works.

    I mean sure, you can also try cognitive therapy or massage alone, but most people dont have success with the single elements of the protocol. And just doing regular massage with your PT will do shit for a knot-up pelvic floor, you need to work with a PT trained in internal pelvic floor therapy.

    I already pointed out, that Anderson is a Urologist with an office at Stanford, so Quote: is a false accusation.

    Dr. Wise never said he was a Doctor, neither in/on the book nor elsewhere.

    You also say that allegedly patients said improvement was just a placebo.

    It is impossible to have a placebo for intrarectal massage, so a placebo-controlled study is not readily achievable. Does it mean they are therefore not reliable? No. It simply means they were not placebo controlled, which means they are less reliable than a placebo-controlled study. In an ideal world, we’d have a placebo-controlled study, but since that is well-nigh impossible, there is no point in carping about the results we do have. And BTW the results were published in the best peer-reviewed journals in urology, so we can rest assured they are dependable studies.

    Did you even read the book or do any of your own research or are you just quoting reviews from a bookshop?

    #7564

    Fredric

    No hard feelings. Yeah sure I also don’t think that prolonged abstinence, pseudoscience and new age therapies will do anything for us.

    But we still have to keep an open mind and not get fixated on one kind of treatment, because like you said everyone of us is probably dealing with a slightly different disorder, even so some of the symptoms we suffer from may overlap.

    The important thing is that we keep exchanging our ideas, our expieriences, sucesses and failures in a respectful way. If you are not convinced by a particular approach you can just ignore it, nobody will can force you to try out anything. Its up to you to discuss and tryout the approach you deem fitting.

    But in the past we discussed everything here from hormonal therapies to the a little far out Daoist practices, but hey, I like it, it helps you to stay open minded and try out something new if you are in a dead-end.

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