Sexual Reboot Forum › Why there is no sexual exhaustion
This topic contains 15 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by Devin 3 years, 1 month ago.
September 16, 2013 at 1:25 am #6243
The concept of “sexual exhaustion” comes from Traditional Chinese Medicine and the Auyurvedic tradition. Even where those traditions have validity, things can turn sour when their practitioners start to justify their traditions in terms of Western science. For example, the explanation offered here via a site member sounds sciency, but a lot of it is conjecture without scientific basis, or simply wrong (that is, not supported by Western-style research). Many of the biochemical pathways described in it do not occur. The author mixes factual physiology with manufactured physiology.
A more accurate version of how erections are controlled is here: Review. Central control of penile erection: A re-visitation of the role of oxytocin and its interaction with dopamine and glutamic acid in male rats (2011), or view a more simplified explanation, with diagrams, here.
Meanwhile, here are a few of the inaccuracies in the explanation the site visitor linked to:
The hypothalamus releases the neurohormone dopamine which results in sexual arousal.
The reward circuit (nucleus accumbens) releases dopamine into the hypothalamus, which in turn activates oxytocin-producing neurons which, in turn, activate nerves in the spinal cord, which in turn activate nerves traveling to the penis. So it is the reward circuit dopamine that controls most types of erections.
When you feel sexually aroused, the brain releases the neurotransmitter acetylcholine into the bloodstream in the sex organs
False. The actual pathway is described above. Acetylcholine is released from parasympathetic nerve endings connecting to penile tissues, not into the blood. Although acetylcholine is involved, the primary neurotransmitter for the penile erections is NO (nitric oxide), which is released from a unique group of “non-adrenergic, non-cholinergic (NANC)” nerves.
Excessive sexual activity and over-ejaculation lead to overproduction of androgen hormones,
False. All reports from men who have had blood tests, and all experimental evidence, prove this to be false.
Since dopamine is the precursor to the stress hormone epinephrine (adrenaline), excess dopamine results in the adrenal glands overproducing epinephrine and putting the body in a prolonged state of fight-or-flight stress.
Half right, but all wrong. Dopamine may be a precursor to norepinephrine, but the dopamine produced in the reward circuit stays in the reward circuit and does not travel to the adrenals.
At the same time, norepinephrine is synthesized from dopamine and released from the adrenal medulla into the blood as a hormone, along with the stress hormone cortisol.
False, brain dopamine stays in the brain, and is not sent to the adrenals. Also, cortisol is not controlled by dopamine in the blood; it is controlled by ACTH released into the blood, which in turn is controlled by brain CRF.
The problem with porn-induced is dopamine, but it’s not too much, it’s too little. It’s called desensitization and described here. The problem is an addiction process, not a matter of “sexual exhaustion.”
What he’s trying to describe is adrenal exhaustion. This can happen, but not via the biochemical pathways he describes. The symptoms of true adrenal exhaustion (low cortisol, a stress hormone) are many and varied, with ED being way down on the list. Incidentally, most MD’s do not recognize ‘adrenal exhaustion,’ but low levels of other hormones show up in patients, so it’s likely low stress hormones are also possible. Here’s a good list of the types of symptoms that may be related to low stress hormones: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/symptoms-low-cortisol/
Semen leakage article
This article is basically a knock-off of the main thesis of the Herballove article discussed above. As explained, in terms of Western medicine, much of the article is simply incorrect. Other parts are not known, such as what happens to the spinal nerves that go to the penis. None of the claims are backed up by any research studies.
Here are my comments on aspects of the semen leakage article:
Semen leakage is a sign of sexual exhaustion.
Western medicine doesn’t recognize ‘sexual exhaustion.’ The term sexual exhaustion is used for a temporay state observed in many mammalian species, and extensively studied in rats. See: Men: Does Frequent Ejaculation Cause A Hangover?
Semen leakage is caused due to weakening of parasympathetic nerve. Parasympathetic nerves are responsible for keeping the ejaculation valve shut and holding the erection. It is difficult to hold the erection with weak nerves and hence the problem of semen leakage arises.
No evidence either way for this claim.
Masturbation, if practiced regularly, stimulates the acetylcholine/parasympathetic nervous functions.
So what? Nerves don’t wear out. What about the parasympathetic nerves that release acetylcholine onto the heart, continuously, from months before your birth until the moment of your death?
Stimulation when taken to a greater level can cause over production of sex hormones and neuro-transmitters like acetylcholine, dopamine and serotonin. A larger secretion of these hormones and neurotransmitters, causes the brain and adrenal glands to perform excessive dopamine-norepinephrine-epinephrine conversion.
Complete nonsense. No evidence whatsover for the overproduction of sex hormones due to masturbation or sex. The 3 neurotransmitters listed do NOT leave the brain and enter circulation, so they cannot directly affect the adrenal glands, although their imbalance may indirectly do so. There is no “excess conversion of dopamine to norepinephrine.” All this is fabricated information, and cannot occur in the manner described.
So where are we? Maybe something does happen to the parasympathetic nerves, but the nerves responsible for erections are far more than just parasympathetic. Maybe the problem and its resolution still come down to a decline in dopamine signalling in the brain, which affects the tone of the nerves innervating the penis.
There’s lots still to learn about male sexuality. Meanwhile, see this FAQ and the 3 major links – Any connection between orgasm, masturbation, and testosterone levels?
Why does this matter?
You may be thinking, “Why does it matter whether the cause is sexual exhasution or addiction-related brain changes?”
Here’s why: Many guys with porn-induced sexual dysfunction may wrongly believe that they can continue viewing porn, or edging to porn without ejaculating and still recover, because they believe “excess ejaculation” is the cause of their sexual problems. For many, this will not work because it is the extreme novelty of Internet porn which is overstimulating their brains, and causing dopamine dysregulation (an addiction process).
Hundreds of websites link to YBOP, so I have seen many guys who simply cut out ejaculation to treat their “sexual exhaustion.” It didn’t work for them when cutting out porn did. This suggests the problem is in their brains not their penises, and that their brains need a rest.
hey guys i firmly believe that if your hormones are fine (like mine) then abstaining for a long time will work..there is no sexual dysfunction its dopamine dysregulation and its subsequent effects…
its almost like alcohol dependence..those guys have a lot of the same problems we have..infact chronic alcohol abusers have higher rates of premature ejaculation and ed than us!!!..so stop jerking off is the best thing guys…
even though i am not completely cured but i am much better….
for the depression etc that you have take an ssri. trust me you will get betterThere is another way that you can stop porn addiction, chronic masturbation and recover your sexual health without fighting it with willpower. With the right mindset you won't even relapse. You can learn more about the recovery program hereSeptember 16, 2013 at 1:25 am #6244
I abstained for 8 months but did not heal. After a week or two I somewhat recover from an ejaculation. Then it seems to plateau. I never get really good erections and I never get spontaneous ones either.
I have gone years where I would only masturbate once a month or once every other month. This has not cured me. Yes it helps because I get inflammation in my vas deferens and lower abdomen after ejaculation and can feel tired and get headaches but I never heal – just get back to about 50-60%
I pretty much have tried everything at this point. I am now taking vitamins and minerals as I have been for years, juicing, etc…, but now, I am also taking heavy duty herbs from Western Botanicals to assist.September 16, 2013 at 1:26 am #6245
Obviously our hormones are far from being ok. This is the inflexion point that will divide soft and severe cases, tests that reflex profound, mysterious disorders in young people. I abstained for 20 days and for more than a month and we never really cured with this. Ok I was more aroused, less depressive and with slightly more erections but that its almost nothing when you have so many symptoms. Hehe I was the more lame in the abstaining XD and funny thing is I am the one who doesnt has orgasms.September 16, 2013 at 1:26 am #6246
THIS is important. I think that in some or all severe cases the hypothalamus, as the pituitary or the adrenal glands are screwed. Finding the reason for this is our chore. It can be neurotoxins (heavy metals or even byproducts of parasites, lyme etc etc), the consecuence of trauma and prolonged stress, being in a chronic sympathetic state etc… and obviously a way to rebuild them. But basically at least in my case there was some kind of point of trauma in my history, I came from super libido to this horrible state in one year or two, wasnt something progressively driven by overmasturbation, nope. So its about something that injured our glands and nervous system, while also affecting other organs and systems, not to mention that having a screwed hormonal and nervous system will screw by itself all the other functions…September 16, 2013 at 1:26 am #6248
what this guys saying is completely true check out yourbrainonporn.com or Reddit.com/r/nofap there are TONS of guys like us getting over it every day its not just abstaining for a month its not becoming aroused by anything other than a real woman for a period of 3 to 8 months or so. no fantasy no porn no touching yourself at all. if it isn’t what’s going to fix you then what have you lost in the 6 months you’re doing this ? its worth taking the chance the only thing you have to lose is the shit that got you here in the first place. I’ve been lurking both these sites for a while now and I’ve yet to see someone say that after 6 months they weren’t significantly better. don’t debate me because I’m not coming back to this website for a month if at all so save your energy I just stopped by again to throw you guys a rope because I wish someone would have done the same for me.September 16, 2013 at 1:27 am #6249
Because of low dopamine symptoms after ejaculation I thought that it is good idea to abstain for a long time.
The longest I was able to abstain was 30-35 days but little did I know that racing thoughts and feeling anxiety was not because of my diet or traumas but because of abstaining.
During ejaculation I don’t feel “good” (orgasm anhedonia) but it did give me a relief and the racing thoughts and anxiety stopped.
I can’t even imagine how could someone abstain for 2 months not to mention 5 or 8 LOL.
You are right about porn sites.I have quit watching hardcore porn for 3 months and didn’t relapsed yet and I won’t go back.
I have abstained from facebook too for 1 week.That’s where I watch the “soft” fetish pages with pictures.I thought that quitting porn is the main problem and I can afford a little fetish site for myself.
1 week without FB and I felt pretty bad withdrawal and anxiety.So bad that I don’t want to wish to do it again unless it would cure all thyroid,adrenals,liver problems but it doesn’t.
Quitting porn success is for the mild cases.
We look deeper in to this.porn,games,smoking,drinking…
There are addictive personalities here and we are looking for the root cause not the symptom like porn.Why do you want to torture yourself when you could find the root cause of your problems like childhood traumas,social anxiety,mercury poisoning or rare genetic mutations?
Correcting/supporting these would correct the underlying problems like addictions.September 16, 2013 at 1:27 am #6251
Steve, I don’t regret abstaining from masturbation. I feel like I have got my life back.
When I was masturbating once a day or every other day I was feeling like shit. I would feel exhausted at work and after work. I wasn’t as productive as I am now. I can think clearly now. I am not sluggish. My energy is a lot higher than it was when I was masturbating.
Abstaining was the best thing I ever did for my health!September 16, 2013 at 1:27 am #6252
Absolutely dont watch porn and dont touch your shit untill it lets you know its getting better. you also dont want to fall into spectating your penis and always checking it or performing test flights to see if your ready to rumble. That will only make things worse. I suffered hopeless symptoms for two years and now am waking with erections and even having sex fairly easily recently. Alot of people may say two years is long as shit and doesnt really say much for my regiment but I’ll take it. The recovery has been accelerating lately now that i have finally reprogrammed my head to resist temptation. we are animals and if you think about where we come from naturally we would be having sex with a partner no where near as much as it is possible to sit in front of a computer and unload. you need to understand that you should be letting temptation build and build for your next encounter with a woman and not go to your computer everytime you feel a little horny or addicted or whatever. unless you’re getting frequent erections complimented with infrequent lady friends you should be abstaining. especially us with weakened systems. even after getting to the point of being capable of having sex twice back to back(surprised me), I regressed a little and can feel the set back.
Andy have you been taking steps to reduce your inflammation? that seemed to be one of my biggest problems and for me taking fish oil, ginger, NSAIDs like aleve or ibuprofen SPARINGLY, and lately ive been taking this enzymedica repair gold helped. mixing the enzymes with the NSAIDs could be risky if you’re older because they both have blood thinning properties.
Most important though is to stay on top of YOUR research and read all you can and learn all you can so you can decide for yourself what your best choice is out of what options you have. Of course like everything else working together makes this easier.September 16, 2013 at 1:28 am #6253
Gin I couldnt catch what was the thing that made the change on your recovery. It was abstaining from porn and masturbation (for how long then) or the antinflammatory protocol?September 16, 2013 at 1:28 am #6254
Who says abstaining its useless? If I ever did I apologize. Everytime you ejaculate with masturbation you are wasting your lifeforce, and I can feel the day after when I have masturbated. Its slow suicide.
Stopping fantasies, masturbation and porn its part of the recovery, but wont cure very fucked cases, thats it.September 16, 2013 at 1:28 am #6256
No one. I was just explaining the benefits of abstaining. It has no doubt gave me my life back. Although I feel there are a few things that I need to work on, but I feel a whole lot better than when I was masturbating.
I also think you’re on the right track with the detoxing. It has got me thinking about doing a detox myself. You know I think Gin was onto something when he was talking about taking cold showers. A little research on cold showers revealed some benefits to cold showers such as:
-skin and hair doesn’t dry out, hot showers dry out your skin and hair
-hot showers water evaporates and you breath in all the fluoride and other chemicals in our municipal water where as cold showers do not
-cold showers circulate your blood and moves your body heat to your organs
-cold showers make you feel more awake
-hot showers strip your hair and skin of its natural oils, cold showers don’t
I haven’t seen any negatives to cold showers.
I am just trying to stay healthy. If this keeps me healthy and youthful, then I can take a cold shower for 10 minutes every night.September 16, 2013 at 1:29 am #6257
Sarg I honestly believe it was the combination of the supps, diet, getting out not staying stagnant getting exercise, abstaining, and TIME. Remember what alot of people have already said, we slowly destroyed our bodies for a long period of time and it will most likely take a long period of time to heal. But the supps and diet and exercise speed this process.
I believe each one plays its own vital role in speeding the heaing process.
The supps are tricky because there are many and they require sufficient research or recommendation. But i believe focusing on antiinflammatory ones and then other ones like l arginine is supposed to increase NO and blood flow to the groin area, and ALCAR studys show helps with older men and impotence etc.
The diet is pretty straightforward. Try to eat as naturally as you can. You can research the super foods that have particular benefits. One day I made a salad with baby spinach leaves, onions, avacado, mushrooms, almonds or walnuts i forget, and tuna. I love tomatoes but read about nightshade veggies like tomatoes and potatoes are pro inflammatory. It was a bowl of random mixed nutritional foods I had read about. Not really something i would normally eat. But about ten or fifteen minutes after eating it I got a powerful spontanious erection.
I was reading a fitness article that was explaining how working out the large muscles get your body producing more androgens. It was explaining that even if you were attempting to work out your biceps or abs, doing several sets of squats working out the large thigh muscles would get your body pumping T which would greatly benfit your bicep work out or whatever. Dont overtrain but at the same time dont do 20 pushups and say your done. Invest some real time and effort in a workout regiment. The cardio is great for circulation and muscle building is good for masculinity/male hormone system.
Even thinking about sex is taxing your already worn out signal system that the brain uses. 100% total abstinence for long periods of time.
And time. Its already been two years for me and Im just starting to see drastic improvements.
Those are just off my head bits of information on each area. The more research you do and time invested learning will help you make more educated decisions in each area also. Ex: if i didnt read all that ive read i wouldnt know any of the above statements ive made. I recommend developing the best available routine in each of these areas and sticking to it. If you learn something new, modify your routine for the better. Again this is what has been available to me. If I had the money to pay a specialist to examine my neurotransmitters and hormones i probably would. But right now thats just not an option for me and i cant just sit around and wait for that day to come.September 16, 2013 at 1:29 am #6259
I am gonna look deeper in an antinflammatory way of living. Theres also a diet for this…
Interesting info about squats and for sure I will be including them in my pathetic weight/abs regime (im very weak and depressed most of time).September 16, 2013 at 1:29 am #6261
Thats true,September 16, 2013 at 1:29 am #6262
many say cold shower increase energy and virility.
but some expert (traditional chinese medicine and adrenal fatigue experts) say that if you suffer from kidney yang deficiency or adrenal fatigue you have to avoid cold, you must drink hot water and food that makes you warmer.
I believe that if you don’t suffer from sexual exhaustion you can benefit from cold shower.
If you suffer from sexual exhaustion it’s better a hot shower.We use energy to keep a healty body temperature so if we are weak we can’t waste energy.
One of my symptoms is avversion to cold (Hypotyroidism?) so I will never have a cold showerSeptember 16, 2013 at 1:30 am #6263
yes, doing squat is one of the best way to fight with sexual exhaustion.
There is a reason: if you make some sets of squat with heavy weights and a maximum of 8 reps, your testosterone will increase.
It works only if you use large muscles like thighs (the best option) or pectorals. If you train calves it doesn’t work.
I’ve tried it many times and always there is a big improvement in my energy (no supplement has a fast effect like squat).
The problem is this: when you are tired after having an orgasm, the last thing you want to do is a workout! So it takes a lot of willpower.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.