why you sould fix homrones first and then neuros.

Sexual Reboot Forum why you sould fix homrones first and then neuros.

This topic contains 11 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  Sterling 4 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #516

    Elias

    Some interesting thoughts by chilln that you guys sould read. I agree with his assestment

    Until your underlying hormone levels are improved (heading towards optimum), and their balance is improved (heading towards optimum) then all that natural supps, or SSRIs are going to achieve is at best, you will get temporary relief and then return to your former state.

    Ie: the underlying hormones will restore the status quo.

    You have to permanently modulate the underlying hormones, and then you’ll get long term modulation of the overarching neurotransmitters.

    ###

    If we didn’t have many interdependent hormone-neurotransmitter feedback loops, then your attempts to modulate your neurotransmitters would be successful.

    Because we have so many interdependent hormone-neurotransmitter feedback loops, you have to permanently modify the hormones to get permanent modification to the neurotransmitters.

    ###

    You can dream that you can optimize neurotransmitters via other means, but a dream is a dream is a dream.

    Re measuring neurotransmitters via background serum levels, or urinary metabolites, these tests have not yet been shown to be any sort of reliable predictor of neurotransmitter activity during neuronal firing events.

    Fundamentally neurotransmitter concentrations only matter during neuronal firing events. That’s because neurotransmitters get recycled within milliseconds after use, and they are shunted back to their release tissues (awesome reuse technology), and when that occurs, their background levels are very low, and don’t matter.

    The only concentration of a neurotransmitter which matters is the concentration of the neurotransmitter during the neuronal firing event.

    The few researchers who have developed the technology to measure neurotransmitter levels surrounding neurons while they fire, have not attempted to correlate those neuronal concentrations (a dynamic situation) to a persons background serum levels (a static situation), or their urinary metabolites of the same neurotransmitters.

    Originally Posted by LeanGuy

    Some people have non-hormonal neurological imbalances.

    We can definitely help balance neurotransmitters via modulating the underlying hormones, and then allowing the improved hormone levels and balance to feedback on your neurotransmitters, and thus improve their levels and balance too.

    Until underlying hormone levels are improved (heading towards optimum), and their balance is improved (heading towards optimum) then all that natural supps, or “neurotransmitter-selective-reuptake-inhibitors-or-enhancers” (eg: SSRIs, or SSRAs, etc..) are going to achieve is at best, you will get temporary relief and then that effectiveness will reduce as the hormone and neurotransmtitter feedback loops kick in and cause side effects in other neurotransmitters.

    You have to permanently modulate the underlying hormones, to reach an optimized state, and then you’ll get long term modulation of the overarching neurotransmitters.

    ###

    There’s only a very tiny tiny percentage of people who have neurological imbalances without underlying hormonal imbalances.

    If you still believe this is the case for a larger number of people, then your definition of optimal hormonal balance most likely has too wide tolerances.

    eg: until GH levels and IGF-1 levels (that’s two hormones not one) are optimized, you don’t have optimum hormone balance.

    eg: until insulin sensitivity is optimized, you don’t have optimum hormone balance.

    eg: until cortisol rhythm is optimized (high in morning, low at night) you don’t have optimum hormone balance.

    While most people can “get away with” avoiding GH optimization, if someone has a neurotransmitter imbalance, then they should get all of these hormones optimized, before resorting to neurotransmitter-selective-reuptake-inhibitors-or-enhancers.

    ####

    If we didn’t have many interdependent hormone-neurotransmitter feedback loops, then some people’s attempts to modulate their neurotransmitters via selective-neurotransmitter-reuptake-inhibitors-or-enhancers would be successful, but they are not successful, ie: they result in too many nasty side effects, with unknown long term (continuous use for decades) side effects.

    Because we have so many interdependent hormone-neurotransmitter feedback loops, you have to permanently modify the hormones to get permanent modification to the neurotransmitters.

    Last edited by chilln; 10-14-2009 at 06:53 PM.

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    #517

    Domingo

    I might add that this is almost identical to what Dr. Mariano told me when I mentioned my neurotransmitter issues.

    he said something along the lines of ” yes neurotransmitter testin has some merit but I always leave it for last until every hormonal system has been stablizied to normal levels. Only if symptoms continue do I then attempt to modulate neuros.”

    #518

    Geoffrey

    which means supplementing with aminosSSRI for the sake of raising your neuros while having hormonal imbalances is considered useless or ineffective.

    good find.

    #519

    Francesco

    ya pretty much. ALso hormones influence the proper biochemistry in the brain so that once your done with your amino acid protocol your body will be much more adept at maintin good levels of neuros.

    Im not a believer that fixing our hormones will fix our neuros. I think our affliction is to serious for that and we have done to much damage. I think that will only happen for people who have slight neuro imbalances due to their hormonal issues where as “SE” is whole diffrent monster.

    But I think its crucial to have all hormones optimized before begginin the neuro protocols in an effort to encourage and maintain this new brain chemistry. i also think any neuro protocol attempted without optimzed hormones will only work about 20-30 percent as effectively.

    #520

    Stephan

    one side of the problem is

    hypothyroidism and adrenal fatigue leads to the domination of norephinephrine, and sometime glutamate leading the sufferers to have more stress and lower serotonindopamine hence high glutamate and histamine is elevated in such imbalnces

    this makes sense, once your thyroid and adrenal hormonal issues are fixed literally there is no much work to be done to optimizes the neuros

    #521

    Sanford

    True but you have to be careful with theories like this. For example im hypthyroid and yet all my catecholomines ( dopamine, norepinephrine, Epinephrine) all come back low consistently on blood work.

    Thats why its so important to get your own individual testing done. Do we all have similar symptoms. Yes but there are only some similarities between our blood work. Some will have full blown adrenal fatigue, some not , some will have really low T some mid range. It all depends .

    Thats why Dr. Lin and Dr. Richards are a good starting point to educating yourself about what happend to our body. But their theories are only like 30 percent accurate for most of us. It really is up to the individual to find out exactly how “SE ” manifests itself in your body.

    But ya getting your hormones optimized before nueros realy is crucial unless your a very young and borderline case in which case you really may not have many hormonal issues to adress at all.

    #522

    Brant

    Actually i concluded this from Mariano

    Quote:

    #523

    Donny

    ya I no iv seen that qoute by him many times. Im just sayin that not every theory found online is true, even Dr. M and its up to the individual to check wat is actually going on in their body.

    For example im hypothyroid and all my catecholamines are really low.

    But for the majority of people what dr.m says is true.

    #524

    Tyrell

    cant being happy help balance out your neuros. I’m asking because i think i remember reading somewhere it says keeping a positive attitude and laughing helps with balancing out neuros

    #525

    Arnulfo

    Absolutly not. Thats retarted no offense. Please use common sense.

    #526

    Teddy

    Messing with substances such as dostinex, which directly modulate neurotransmitters, when your T and E2 are so low, with normal SHBG, is a major distraction from your actual health issues which are driving the neurotransmitter imbalance.

    The main issue driving your neurotransmitter imbalance is most likely your low T and low E2 with normal SHBG.

    The hormones have direct feedback loop interactions with all of the neurotransmitters. We don’t understand them well at all, but we do know that by optimizing the levels and balance of the hormones, we also achieve the improvement of the neurotransmitters, and usually to the point where we no longer need to directly modulate any neurotransmitters.

    Perhaps there may also be an issue with your thyroid hormone T3 levels or reverse T3 levels, and / or your night time cortisol levels – but this is still to be determined.

    ###

    When you and your medical professional adviser (ie: a new nedical professional adviser) get around to addressing your low T and low E2, and perhaps addressing thyroid and / or cortisol (still to be determined) then most likely you won’t need to mess with any neurotransmitter modulators, and your health will improve greatly.

    I suggest you research the other medical professional advisers in your area. The one prescribing dostinex will most likely have views which are not conducive to achieving optimum hormone levels and balance.

    Im just postin these things so you guys have some fuel for thought.

    Im gona add my opinion on this as well. I think someone who dosnt have SE but just has hormonal issues may suffer some slight neuro imbalances that fixing hormones will indeed take care of.

    However having SE I would say where in a different boat. I think even despite optimzing homrones where all still gona have neuro problems because SE is primarily fucked up neuros.

    However its crucual to have optimal levels of all hormones before undertakin the neuro protocols so your body is in a state that encoruages it to maintain the proper levels and balance of neuros.

    #527

    Sterling

    JS you should be a doctor dude…

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